Curse

Undivine · Dec 14, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Well, currently we can cast spells on enemies and allies. We can attack enemies. We can run. We can pick things up and drop them. We can "trigger" something like a lever. We can trigger something while holding an item we picked up. We can combine items in our inventory. We can emote. And we can open chests.

Well they've done lots with this setup. They used attacking enemies to destroying magic seals to open gates. They used pick up and drop things to light beacons, carry a bound dwarf to the entrance of Sarrow's Furnace, bring a magical scepter to a powerful wizard, drop bombs and splinter mines that harm the enemy, etc. They used combine items in our inventory to turn a "warm one" into a "cold one." They used running (and following) to have us smash ice golems into ice cubes. They used /kneel to trigger the avatars of the Gods at their statues. And of course they used triggering to shoot catapults, pull levers and the like.

These things thrown into the PvE campaign lighten things up a lot. I loved Sarrow's Furnace because it made more creative use of the game's mechanics. It makes the game more interactive and breaks the monotony of constant killing.

I'm hoping chapter 2 has further creative use of these kinds of mechanics. But if they seem limited right now, why not go the way of Nintendo and introduce more control mechanics? Spells and other combat mechanics seem like they're on a whole different realm. They are used exclusively for combat and nothing else. This detracts from the immersion of the game a little, as it seems like the power you gain from capturing skills and leveling up is only going to benefit your monotonous fighting.

I propose they introduce environmental effects to the spells and skills. Let's say there's a mission in which you could go one way because you have a water ele who can cast any sort of ice spell on an object, which creates a bridge made of ice. But if you don't have that ele, you can go another way where your warrior can push a boulder or hack at a stone wall until it collapses, making a new path. And if you don't have either of those you could go the long route.

How about a quest in which you have to get someone to follow you and then protect him, and your mesmer can cast any illusion spell on him to make enemies non-hostile to him? Or he can cast any domination spell to convince him to follow you rather than having to tie him up and carry him. And again, if you don't have a mesmer in your party, you can do it the slightly harder way.

How about a quest in which a ranger (with good marksmanship) must hit a lever on the other side of a canyon to lower the bridge so that the caravan you're escorting can cross the rapids rather than having to go downstream and negotiate with the guard tower there to let them through?

Necros can use death magic to talk to a dead body and find the answer to a (randomly generate) puzzel. Monks can use protection prayers to make a crystal or egg that you're trying to protect, more resilient... or healing to cure a dying person. Perhaps even resurrect a dead person who can assist the group in various ways. Rangers can use traps to hold back a horde of enemies that you're group has to run away from (like in the Great Wall mission). I could go on, but you get the point by now, I'm sure. It would be awesome if every single mission was filled with multiple ways to do it that involve all the different classes.

Ruin · Dec 14, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

This is a genuinely interesting idea.

I love it.

Or, to use this forum's odd format,

/signed

xBakox · Dec 14, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Very good idea. One thing that I feel is missing. When I got this I thought I would be able to shape the games outcome, but now that ive played it this is relaly what I want. Not just options you HAVE to do or only ahve 3 choices, but anythign you can do. What if you cast a ice bridge in the wrong place that took you somewhere completely different, but got to a "secret" place with better rewards. Instead of having only quests liek that, this is what they should do for the whoel game (with the exceptions of maybe missions).
Id also love to see things such as making trees fall down with a lightning bolt, whetether to kill and enemy or for fun. But not all obvious things. Being able to use enviromental factors.

/signed

Vilaptca · Dec 14, 2005, 03:11 AM // 03:11

I definately wouldn't be opposed to this...

burai · Dec 14, 2005, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Some great ideas there Undivine. These would make GW much more RPG-like. Maybe it would also help the less favoured classes to get into a PuG more easily.

/signed

Arwen Dejang · Dec 14, 2005, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Who needs Pug's? I have henchies! Lina FTW! (no joke I did all the missions with henchies with my Ranger... My wife did it with a messmer!)

OP I definatly like the idea.

/signed

Undivine · Dec 14, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

You guys suck! I can't believe that...

Wait... nobody is arguing against this idea? How nice!

I was sure someone would say it somehow breaks the game or opens some quirky, obscure exploit.

Rikimaru · Dec 14, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

This does sound great. Something they could easily do is place barriers similar to the ones you use kegs on to blow up, but they could be attackable with high HP and damage reduction, so it would just take a powerful attack to break it.
Maybe you could open up certain paths in cave walls that way.

Pyrrhus · Dec 14, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

It is a very good idea... The only problems i can see is getting lost (lots of fun

) and that Anet would have to change some game mechanics which'll take time... Oh well, Rome wasn't built in a day.. It would be excellent.

DeanBB · Dec 14, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

/signed, great idea!

It would be truly awesome if the missions were randomized so that everyone didn't know that Mission A needs a mesmer for easiest route, Mission B needs a death necro, etc. Mix and match the factors/environment in some random fashion to keep things interesting, and of course always provide "the long way" for the team that is not equipped to deal with the shortcuts.

imaginary friend · Dec 14, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

/signed, target practice ftw!

xBakox · Dec 14, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

This does sound great. Something they could easily do is place barriers similar to the ones you use kegs on to blow up, but they could be attackable with high HP and damage reduction, so it would just take a powerful attack to break it.
Maybe you could open up certain paths in cave walls that way.

They already have this. Ether Seals (in RoF missions)

Also being randomized would be awesome. Also having more than one though.
That way some people would argue that hiddne path A is better or hidden path B is better so not everyone used just one class to go through faster.

dawnrain · Dec 14, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Good suggestion, it would definately add to the gameplay. However, I would insure that the alternative paths are dynamic (i.e. sometimes they are available, sometimes they are not) and a good ways into the mission/quest. I'd hate for groups to begin excluding certain classes because they NEED a specific build to make the mission/quest easier. By making the alternative paths dynamic then waiting for specifically needed builds will NOT guarantee the mission/quest is easier.

Mathias Deathwater · Dec 14, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Great idea, but how about this? Each class could have some extra (noncombat) skills that they could only take one of at a time. The characters level in the attribute that skill is attached to would determine its chance to succeed (or something like that). That way, you wouldn't have to worry about messin up your build to take a skill that you might need to get through a mission easier.

PieXags · Dec 14, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I like the idea but I DON'T think the skills should be placed on your current skill bar. We're limited enough with capture signets/rez signets, we shouldn't have to have another one on there. I'm all for the idea, but I think the skills should be placed in a seperate side bar. Say for example you've got your normal 8 slot skill bar, and then on the side you have a skill bar for up to two enviornmental interaction skills. I think that'd work.

xBakox · Dec 14, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Actually the enviromental skill bar is a VERY good idea. Maybe only limit it to 1 skill though? You could unlock maybe 10-40 new enviromental skills based on profession that are for PvE only. That way they cna continuously add new skills without disrupting PvP, though it would be cool if you could do these things in PvP as well. SOme examples could be for a Warrior: Tree Chop (cut down a tree and have another warrior help you move it to a location of your choice) Ele: Ice bridge/slick (make a ice bridge to cross something but you move the same amount slower as on normal ice, or jsut slick the ground to make it hard for enemies to follow) and others Im not really sure of.

Of course for this to happen Anet would have to make better maps that make you feel more immersed (not just the paths we can follow like now). Sure we can choose several paths, but no where in the game is there an actual area to explore. Everywhere, no matter what, we basically just follow paths that you cant get past because there are "mountains" in every region. I know that has to do with instances, but they cant get any bigger? Or wider? /end random rant

PieXags · Dec 14, 2005, 11:12 PM // 23:12

One thing I must note, if they do make implement skills that effect your enviornment I DON'T think they should have it as a necessity. Why, you ask? Because lets say you need to make an ice bridge or something to get across and finish a mission, or you need to cause an avalanche or something with some skill---well think about it now, don't some MONKS just stop playing and demand that you charge them? Imagine how many little wanks you'd have charging for their "I'll change the enviornment so you can get through----but only if you give me one plat each." Say your party walks up and needs a bridge or something, or someone needs to activate a switch that's out of reach, just picture how many people would refuse to do it right in the middle of a mission unless they got paid. It could definately be abused.

So, I propose that if they DO implement this, they make it for bonuses, things like getting chests, or fighting an extra boss, or something of the sort as opposed to having them required.

Phades · Dec 14, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

I'm hoping chapter 2 has further creative use of these kinds of mechanics. But if they seem limited right now, why not go the way of Nintendo and introduce more control mechanics? Spells and other combat mechanics seem like they're on a whole different realm. They are used exclusively for combat and nothing else. This detracts from the immersion of the game a little, as it seems like the power you gain from capturing skills and leveling up is only going to benefit your monotonous fighting.

I propose they introduce environmental effects to the spells and skills. Let's say there's a mission in which you could go one way because you have a water ele who can cast any sort of ice spell on an object, which creates a bridge made of ice. But if you don't have that ele, you can go another way where your warrior can push a boulder or hack at a stone wall until it collapses, making a new path. And if you don't have either of those you could go the long route.

That reminds me of the X-men games on the xbox. It was done rather well in that game and saved alot of hassle in some spots of it, if you brought the right character along. It could be used in this game format if the dev team wanted to im sure. Anything is better than just mindless killing over and over.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Dec 15, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

/signed awesome idea ftw

Undivine · Dec 15, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Lemmie just clarify a bit what I mean here. Whenever I make any suggestion I always keep in mind ease of use, and ease of implimentation.

I'm not talking about having specific skills that can only be used on the environment. I'm talking about giving environmental uses for our current skills. For example, the ice bridge. The ele targets a specific "edge" point. This edge point cannot be attacked or triggered or picked up or anything. If the ele casts any ice spell in his skill bar, be it Deep Freeze, Ice Prison, Ice Spear, etc. then the bridge will form.

Similarly with the ranger, except perhaps he diesn't have to use a skill at all. He just needs to attack that lever on the other side of the canyon with his bow while he has a high Marksmanship attribute. For the warrior pushing a pillar, it could simply be him walking up to it and double-clicking while he has a high Strength attribute, or simply attacking a tree base.

No need for a whole new GUI. No need for extra-curricular spells. Just creative use of current spells and attributes.

Also, I was thinking the benefits need not be too dramatic. If you spend 15 minutes trying to find a mesmer who can shave 7 or 8 minutes off your mission, you've wasted time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xBakox

Actually the enviromental skill bar is a VERY good idea. Maybe only limit it to 1 skill though? You could unlock maybe 10-40 new enviromental skills based on profession that are for PvE only.

Mind you, who am I to toss down another good idea?